Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  14

  What Is Your Favorite Graphic Depicting the WT Experience?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's mine: .

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  Sea Breeze

  All excellent!
  
  I cant find that image the Road to Nowhere mentioned. This one is pretty close. And I agree this is hard to beat:
  
  
  
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  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  The stories and other assertions found in the Bible are claims, not evidence.

  And, the unfounded assumption that the universe appeared out of nothing (the standard atheist worldview) and that all phenonoma is a product of chance, chaos, and disinterested self-guidance is also not evidence.
  
  That is a fallacious strawman argument. It is not the question here is it Jeffro? We are talking about consistency and logic - correct thinking. The question that thinking people what to know is how atheists come to put so much trust in things like logic in a chance and self-guided universe? It is an inherent inconsistency.

  Like the 'law of gravity', the 'laws of logic' are simply descriptions of the way things are, not prescriptions.

  That doesn't make any sense. Gravity is a description of the way matter attracts other physical things. It is irrelevant to abstract thoughts like laws of logic, laws of morality etc.
  
  If I say a proposition has the opposite truth value of its negation, what aspect of the physical universe am I talking about? Likewise, If I say it is wrong to steal from your neighbor, what part of the physical universe am I describing?

  And, while we are on the subject of relevancy, why would a consistent worldview be important to someone who believes that we are products of Big bang explosions, chemical accidents and copying mistakes?

  In my worldview, I am obligated to try and think correctly because God himself created me with the capacity for correct thinking. Since I don't always think correctly, I need laws of logic to keep me on course. That makes sense.

  But, in your worldview - why should you care about correct thinking at all? Why care about universal morality? And, how can you account for its existence?

  In other words, since blind chance cannot account for such laws, you have to borrow God's laws in order to argue against a biblical worldview.
  
  You are like a man giving a talk about the non-existence of air, while breathing air to make your case.
  
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  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  Jeffro, have a good evening. You know that my evidence comes from the Holy Bible. I have no problem quoting scripture in a discussion so that my worldview is at least consistent.

  If you ever want to disclose how or why you have such great faith in the laws of logic, without acknowledgement of a lawgiver, I'm always up for the discussion.
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  And you assert a confidence in logic without the slightest clue (at least any that you are willing to share) of why it is reliable. It makes no sense. That is an inconsistent worldview and you deserve better than that.
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  That's why I'm asking for clarification. So, you have an explanation, but you just don't want to share it?
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  The expectation that I should have some alternative explanation at all to compete with your imaginary explanation is a false dichotomy

  So, you admit that you have "no explanation at all"?

  
  
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  Jeffro,

  The reason that you and I both subsribe to, use & have total faith in the laws of logic is because we both know the God of the bible. (Romans 1: 18) We are all "without excuse". You were made in his image same as I and use his inventions same as I do. You know those laws don't change because God "changes not." He is the source of your confidence in reason - truths we agree upon.
  
  What other conclusion could a thinking person come to?

  You claim that an assumption of chaos, chance, and physicality can create non-physical, stable and complex conceptual truths from such a source. It makes no sense.

  Your worldview is inconsistent and that should be a big red flag to correct course. And, that should matter to you.... logically speaking.
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  Then why don't you please just explain it so I can be free of these superstitions?

  Saying laws of logic are true because they are true doesn't explain anything. Is that all you got?
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  These are basic concepts that hold true irrespective of whether things ‘arise by chance’

  Jeffro,

  Saying it's true because it's true is circular. Are you intending to say that the rules of logic are just a property of the universe? You still haven't answered my fair question as to why you have such confidence in the laws of logic in a chance & meaningless universe.

  Don't you want to present a logical and reasonable alternantive to "superstitions" as you put it?
  

  How does a physical chance universe produce things that are non-physical (like reasoning) and things that are imperviouse to chance?
  
  Is a consistent worldview even important to you ?

  How logical is that?
• 
  137

  I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

  by BeaverEater in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im not an atheist, makes no mathematical sense, nor does the buy(more) bull(shit) god make any logical sense... maybe a deist on my best day, in the end you cannot get something from nothing, paradox if you ask me... but in reality i just dont care.

  while in, and moving out of the cult, its like a roller coaster, emotionally, yet, for me, over time, i just take it one day at a time, and if appeasing some special deity is required, well i guess i failed.

  lol.

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  Sea Breeze

  Jeffro,

  Your first sentence is describing the law of non-contradiction. As a Christian, I can makes sense of this law becasue 2 Timothy 2: 13 says God cannot deny himself. Laws of logic are simply a description of how God thinks. Since I am made in his image, it follows that I possess certain preconditions of intelligibility to perceive these laws.

  But, how do you know that laws of logic are true everywhere, at all places for all observers? How do chemical accidents like us even recognize these laws? The problem gets bigger when examining why you assume these laws are not subject to chance, location and perception. Have you been everywhere to verify your truth statement? Have you checked out all chance universes to verify this?

  Your assumption of universality has no basis, and so your confidence is not consistent with your worldview.
  
  You may not acknowledge God like I do, but at least my worldview is consistent.